• AP Magazine

    An alternative way to explore and explain the mysteries of our world. "Published since 1985, online since 2001."

  • 1
An Exclusive Interview with Dr. Greg Little

By Brent Raynes

DR. GREG LITTLE, co-editor of this magazine and, most important of all, a long time dear friend and colleague, has been deeply engaged through the years on many mainstream and alternative fronts of science and human awareness. He has a master’s degree in psychology and a doctorate in counseling from Memphis State University (TN). A Nationally Certified Psychologist (NAMP), Greg has worked for well over three decades in the criminal justice system of several dozen states, authoring and co-authoring numerous books and workbooks dealing with moral behavior and substance abuse. Back in the early 1980s, his interest in Native Americans arose from his curiosity as to the effects of their rituals upon brain processes. Greg is certainly a prolific author, with several hundred articles in professional journals, newspapers and magazines, books such as The Archetype Experience, People of the Web, Grand Illusions, The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Native American Mounds & Earthworks, as well as documentaries he has produced such as The Ancient Bimini Harbor, The Search for Edgar Cayce’s Atlantis (co-produced with his wife Dr. Lora Little), The Cygnus Mystery, and The Lost Caves of Giza. Plus much more!

Periodically, a guest on the popular radio show Coast-to-Coast AM, George Noory recently had Greg on to bring listeners up-to-date on his and his wife Lora’s ongoing investigations into the mysterious and legendary region of this planet known as the Bermuda Triangle.

Brent Raynes: During your recent Coast to Coast AM radio appearance you revealed the carbon dated age calculation of material from an impressive stone structure located beneath the shallow waters of the Bahamas, testing that indicated that the site was pretty darned old! Can you describe this matter for our readers?

Dr. Greg Little: The structure is what looks like the outside foundation of a rectangular building about 45 by 25 feet or so. It has two rooms. The outer foundation walls are very distinct and straight. They are a consistent foot thick and extend down into sand at least 4 feet. On the inside you find hundreds of smaller blocks scattered around. On the outside of these outer walls is nothing but pure white sand. It's located off South Bimini, in 15 to 30 feet of water. It's quite impressive looking and is clearly manmade.

Brent Raynes: How was it dated?

Dr. Greg Little: OK, because the walls are made from carbonate, in this case limestone beachrock, we were sent a sample of it removed by another ARE-based team and we had it carbon dated by the premiere radiocarbon lab in the US. This happened about 6 months after we first saw it and made a report on the structure. The ARE sent in another team to measure it and take samples. We are allowing the ARE to release a formal statement on the discovery, but what I can say is that the stone was formed in about 17,000 BC.

Brent Raynes: Does that mean that's when the building was constructed or just when the stone itself formed?

Dr. Greg Little: It's a bit complicated for most people to understand but the short story is probably something many people can grasp. It is beachrock and all beachrock forms right at the edge of the beach, where water waves hit land over and over. The rock forms from carbonate processes where sand, pebbles, and shell material get coated in carbonate material that dries out and gradually hardens into limestone rock. As the tides go up and down the process goes on and on creating larger and larger pieces of rock. The carbon in organic material that gets solidified in the rock--like shell-- is what gets carbon dated. But the key here is to keep in mind it's beachrock and had to form on the waters edge. So where was the water's edge 19,000 years ago? The sea level then was at least 300-feet lower than today. That depth is about 2 miles from where this rock is now. It means that this particular rock was moved to where it is now. It undoubtedly had to be moved before the sea levels were rising, and of course they were slowly starting to rise about then anyway. In essence, we think this rock was moved to higher land and was used to construct a building on what was then a hill at least 300-feet above the ocean.

Brent Raynes: How can the archaeological community now justifiably continue to remain so seemingly apathetic in searching for evidence of a prehistoric civilization in the Bahama region? Do you feel that this new carbon dating evidence will cause a shift in scientific attitudes with regard to this matter?

Dr. Greg Little: No, what we have found will not change the mainstream view at all. They are really entrenched and when I say "they" I'm only talking about a few individuals who have been very vocal about everything in the Bahamas being natural and that there was no one there till about AD 500 or so. These are people who have basically staked their entire career reputation on being Atlantis haters--maybe I should say skeptics of Atlantis--but they actually seem so spiteful that it looks more like hate to me. I really can't call them scientists, because genuine scientists actually report data and findings and change their ideas as evidence arises. What these skeptics seem to do is issue propaganda. Those--ah, perhaps the more scientific archaeologists who seek truth--who are aware of this background have bluntly admitted to us that no matter what is found there they cannot under any circumstances become involved because they will lose their mainstream funding. I understand it completely. So that's that, at least for now. Nothing is going to change in it, at least for the moment. To some extent, that's why we got interested in the Bermuda Triangle issue, we found lots of crashed planes and sunken boats and it became more interesting to me. If we find something more definitive in the field of archaeology, we'll certainly report it to the appropriate people, but we've focused more on the lost planes.

Brent Raynes: You explained to me earlier that your recent underwater plane wreckage video from the Bermuda Triangle was Coast to Coast's most viewed video to date. So far you and your wife Lora have come upon some 29 plane wrecks in the Triangle. You feel with enough time, resources, and good luck that you could possibly locate all of the ships and planes reported missing in the Bermuda Triangle down through the years?

Dr. Greg Little: Oh no, there is no way we could ever find all of them. Keep in mind that we are looking in shallow water, areas no deeper than say 100 feet. We know there are a few hundred places on the Great Bahama Bank where there is a crashed plane or sunken ship, but many of these are definitely known about. This area is about 200 miles wide and 300 or so miles long. It's a vast area and will take some time to search. But it's small compared to the whole area known as the Bermuda Triangle. Some of the lost planes went down in really deep water and in the Gulf Stream, the Tongue of the Ocean off east Andros, and in the area around Puerto Rico and in the far Atlantic it is just too deep for much exploration. Many will be lost forever. But yes, we have found 29 plane wrecks so far. About 9 are known, meaning that the circumstances and details of them are known. One plane was definitely ID'd as a plane "lost" in the Triangle and another is a near certainty. There are 3 others that match details of other "lost" planes, but we lack absolute proof in terms of finding the N-number. The one in the video we posted appears to be one of two possibilities and we should have final proof on its identity in September. But we just have to wait till we get back to it.

Brent Raynes: Though it may not be an ancient and deadly crystal powered Atlantean death ray piece of technology still laying beneath the waters of the Triangle wreaking havoc, destruction and despair upon unsuspecting pilots, sea captains, and their crews and passengers passing overhead, there are nonetheless numerous reports of genuine anomalies there, aren't there? You've even had a couple of oddball experiences yourself. What have you found out from your own research and investigations?

Dr. Greg Little: There definitely are odd things that happen to older magnetic compasses out there. These are sporadic events in that there isn't any area where it happens all the time. My guess is that it's a subsurface tectonic phenomenon related to geology and perhaps sometime gas pockets. The weather can change fast there, we have seen violent thunderstorms just instantly pop up and we have seen lots of waterspouts and big waves form. And it gets hazy and foggy, really dense fog can form. Last time we were there we spent about 2 hours running at about 30 mph on our boat through some sort of something resembling a haze. No land was visible and the sky and water just completely blended together. There was no wind at all and the seas were almost calm. You couldn't see any horizon and maybe 10 feet or so off the boat you really couldn't tell it was water. It was a strange environment. We have talked to a lot of locals who have told us weird stories and I do think they are being honest. There are some lights occasionally see in the water and we have heard a lot of tales about experienced seamen traveling by magnetic compass and winding up a great distance from where they were supposed to be. We have never had a problem with our GPS but have found that satellite phones typically don't work there at all. As to the submerged Atlantean crystal idea I'll wait for it to be found. I do not think that an Atlantean power crystal has ever been found in that region. I know that there is one that is alleged to have been found, but I see nothing that substantiates the claim. There is what looks like a crystal ball that was supposedly found near the Berry Islands, which is east of Bimini and just north of Andros, but I personally do not buy the story. Nevertheless, a lot of people really like the story.

Brent Raynes: One of the main points of focus in yours and Lora's ongoing investigations in the Bahamas has been to locate any evidence you could find to confirm the legendary psychic Edgar Cayce's readings that there was an Atlantean Hall of Records to be found there. Cayce even predicted that around 1968 and 1969, in fact, some sort of trace of Atlantis would be uncovered, and sure enough, around that very time period reports indeed started to surface and became a media sensation. Can you elaborate for us further on this?

Dr. Greg Little: Well I could write a book about this. Oh wait, we did. Two actually. The first was The ARE's Search for Atlantis and the other one Edgar Cayce's Atlantis. It was in the early 1940's when Cayce stated that a portion of Atlantis would rise in the area around Bimini in 1968 and 1969. It was in the 1920's that Cayce stated that a temple of Atlantis was erected near Bimini and subsequently sunk in 10,000 BC. This is one of three identical Hall of Records. In 1968 pilots Trigg Adams and Robert Brush photographed a couple underwater structures off Andros and told the biologist J. Manson Valentine about it when they landed in Miami. Valentine and Dimitri Rebikoff subsequently went to Andros and managed to find one structure which Valentine claimed was a Mayan temple. The reports were made to national newspapers and tabloid papers. It made a lot of headlines. But what they actually found was a sponge pen. However, Valentine became obsessed with searching for underwater ruins closer to Miami. In late 1968 he asked a local fisherman if he knew of any underwater stone formations and the fisherman took him to what we know as the Bimini Road or Bimini Wall. And that became the huge controversy as Valentine and others promoted it as a remnant of Atlantis. In 1969 there were a lot of other things found in the area because a lot of people were drawn to the area by the publicity. There were stone and marble columns, a marble temple, another Bimini Road-like formation, stone circles, and we think the underwater building we started with in this discussion was also found then. What is not too well known is that the ARE was funding drilling operations in Bimini at that time, in an effort to find a gold vein Cayce related was underwater between north and South Bimini. Everything I have read about the events of that time show it was quite a media circus then. The old series "In Search of" did a couple shows there as well as several other documentaries. Earnest Hemmingway's brother was the Editor of the Bimini newspaper and he was involved in a lot of the events. It was a counter reaction to this media circus that led to a couple of people publishing articles claiming that everything was natural or "fell off a boat." When the entire background of this comes out I think that a lot of people, both skeptics and proponents alike, will be stunned at the genuine facts. I'll eventually release all of this, but for the moment, it has to stay in the background.

Sunday, March 03, 2024