Alternate Perceptions Magazine, April 2023
An interview with Tommy Roy Blann on cattle mutilations
by: Brent Raynes
Tommy Roy Blann
New Mexico State Police officer Gabe Valdez and Tommy Roy Blann taken during the Spring of 1981. In this photo, they were looking at color polaroid photos that Paul Bennewitz had taken off of his computer when he claimed he was in contact with aliens via his computer. This was during the time period when Bennewitz had taken photos of some type of disc-shaped craft landing at the Manzano storage area at Kirtland AFB.
Richard Doty, AFOSI (Air Force Office of Special Investigations) later revealed that they tried to make Bennewitz think he was in contact with aliens. This was also during the height of livestock mutilations in Northern New Mexico in which Bennewitz had been led to believe that aliens were also involved with the livestock mutilations.
Tommy R. Blann
Bio: Author and investigator into the UFO phenomenon for over over fifty years. Gave a number of guest appearances on radio and television talk shows throughout the United States, and lectured to universities and civic groups. Served as Deputy Director of the International UFO Bureau, Inc., State Section Director for MUFON, Director of the Texas Scientific Research Center For UFO Studies, Inc., and was a research associate to the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek.
Served in the United States Air Force during the Vietnam War, receiving an Honorable Discharge in 1965. Later served in the Civil Air Patrol, USAF Auxiliary, 2nd Lieutenant and Public Affairs Officer (PAO) between USAF officials and the civilian sector, Commander of Berry Field Composite Squadron at BNA, Nashville, TN, went on Search & Rescue (SAR) missions to locate downed aircraft, trained High School students to enter into military service and assisted them in drill competitions at a number of AF bases throughout the United States.
Attended Texas State Tech College in Waco, TX for two years studying Chemical & Nuclear Systems Technology from 1974 to 1976. Worked in the electronic industry (Texas Instruments, Inc.) and held security positions with a number of companies. Security patrol officer in Panama City Beach, Florida under the Chief of Police and worked with the Bay County Sheriff's Office for a number of years. Consultant to a number of law enforcement agencies throughout the United States and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), participated in the Active Shooter Program with the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office and the Fort Walton Beach Police.
Brent Raynes: Tommy, when and how did you first get drawn into the cattle mutilation controversy?
Tommy Roy Blann: When I was Deputy Director of the International UFO Bureau, Inc., Oklahoma City, Oklahoma in 1970 I came into contact with Tom Adams and Gary Massey of Texas. Adams and Massey attended some of our UFO conferences, since our organization was international and larger than most groups at that time except for NICAP. We worked closely with Jim and Coral Lorenzen of the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO) during the early years.
Tom and Gary introduced me to the unusual death of “Snippy” the horse in Alamosa, Colorado which occurred a few years prior ( 1967 ) to our meeting. It was then that I began an investigation into the mysterious “cattle mutilation” phenomenon. Tom and Gary were instrumental in providing many details about this incident, since they had been to the area and developed a close friendship with Mr. & Mrs. Berle Lewis, the owners of Snippy. Mr. and Mrs. Lewis indicated to their friends and the media that they had seen UFOs nearly every night, and thus the association between UFOs and the mutilation of the horse began. When I interviewed Harry King in person, the owner of the King Ranch where Snippy was pastured, he told me that prior to him finding Snippy dead and mysteriously mutilated that a few of his cattle had become sick and that one of his cows' eyes had turned a bluish-white and the animal could not see. He didn't know if the low level flights of aircraft over his cattle had anything to do with it.
What was interesting was when Snippy was first found by Harry King on Sept. 9th , Snippy's skull and neck tissue were gone and the bones were bleached white. There was a strong medicinal odor in the air near Snippy. The horse came to the ranchhouse every evening for water and grain, until September 7th, and on Sept. 8th thats when King went looking for Snippy. It was suggested by some at the time due to several holes found around one Chico bush, plus a piece of flesh from the horse in the bush that burned Mrs. Lewis's hand when she touched it, that someone had strung the horse up on posts by its legs and had cut the horse's throat and dipped it down in some type of chemical to remove the tissue from the skull and neck. One individual even suggested that the odor hanging in the air was due to a lightning strike that had killed the horse.
According to one writer, several days later the park police at the nearby Great Sands Dunes National Park busted someone for trespassing on the property after dark. The trespasser turned out to be Dr. John Altshuler, an award winning pathologist, who asked the police to keep his name secret because he said he was afraid that if it became known that he was in the park searching for UFOs it would ruin his career. It was stated that the police didn't arrest Dr. Altshuler, and later took him to view “Snippy” (Lady was the real name of the horse) since he was a “medical expert.” Reports from newspapers at that time quoted Dr. Altshuler, who remained anonymous, stating that “the absence of organs in the abdominal cavity was unexplainable.” https://weekinweird.com/2013/01/08/death-dunes-ufos-startcattle-mutilation-san-luis-valley/
A UPI story on “Snippy” in 1967 indicated that a “Dr. Ora R. Adams, head of veterinary clinics and surgery at CSU, flew to Alamosa, Colorado, at the request of Dr. Robert Low, project coordinator for the University of Colorado on unidentified flying objects (UFOs). Adams said the only thing unusual about the horse's death was a cut in the skin across the neck and shoulders. He indicated that this could have been done by someone trying to put the horse out of its misery. The horse probably had an infection in one of its hind legs which caused its death.”
Dr. Adams also said that “the unidentified pathologist who performed an autopsy on Snippy has retracted his statement that brain and nervous tissue was missing from the horse.” On January 28th, 1968 the Rocky Mountain News carried a news story about a Dr. Wallace Leary, a veterinarian and health officer, displayed evidence in X-rays where “Snippy's” right thigh bone had a notch in it and metal fragments where the bone had been blasted away by a bullet. This additional information seemed to support Dr. Adams' statements made earlier. It appeared that human involvement was responsible for the death of “Snippy.” Years later Dr. Altshuler would join up with Linda Howe in 1988 to conduct blood and tissue studies from mutilated animals and would once again make statements about “internal organs were surgically removed.”
BR: It is clear that over time you became recognized as a leading research and investigative figure in this field. In fact, when New Mexico Senator Harrison Schmitt, a former NASA astronaut, one of several state leaders who were concerned about the growing number of reports of livestock mutilations, coordinated a conference on this matter to be held at the Albuquerque Public Library on April 20, 1979. You and others, like Gabe Valdez, a State Police Officer of Dulce, New Mexico, who had investigated a good number of cases, as well as David Perkins, Director of the Department of Research at Libre School in Farasita, Colorado, and Tom Adams of Paris, Texas, people who had become like a brother to you, and a good number of others presented their thoughts, theories, and evidence to the conference. There was a heavy concentration of FBI agents in attendance too I've read.
In talking with you earlier, I know that from your experience at this conference you had concerns that not everyone in attendance was on the same page. In fact, soon after leaving the podium you had an unfriendly encounter with someone in the audience that you regretted that you didn't go right back to the podium afterwards and tell everyone in attendance what had just happened between you and that individual.
Can you share details on that and your overall impression on how the conference went and what you shared and learned from it?
TRB: Prior to the Senator Harrison Schmitt mutilation conference in 1979, I had been investigating the animal mutilations throughout the United States and Canada (RCMP) specifically working with various law enforcement agencies as a consultant. Jim Marrs, Fort Worth Star Telegram reporter and well-known author of “Crossfire” about the Kennedy Assassination, worked with me on the mutilation issue. He and I flew over to Albuquerque, NM to attend the mutilation conference where he would cover the event for his newspaper. I presented a few of my investigations indicating that this mutilation issue was not new and was happening in other countries. This was little known by the majority of investigators at the time, since it was considered a national problem. Years later it would become well known that it was happening in other countries. I also discussed how this mutilation issue was being investigated by some law enforcement agencies, especially the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) in which some Sheriff's offices had sent in photos and samples and they seem to have become misplaced. Sheriff Tex Graves of Logan County, Colorado had sent in samples to the CBI which he felt clearly showed the cuts were being done by someone and not by predators, but he was continually told it was predation. When I left the podium and walked down the aisle to the back of the auditorium, a gentleman stuck out his foot to stop me. He then told me that I shouldn't have made the statements up there like that about the CBI. I didn't know who he was, and the conference was still ongoing with the next speaker coming up to the podium. I asked him if he was threatening me, because if he was I was going to go back up to the podium and tell the entire room what he just said to me. He then reached into his pocket and pulled out his business card and handed it to me, it read Carl Whiteside, Director of the CBI. He then told me I shouldn't be making statements like that and talked about the two gentlemen dressed in suits in the corner of the backroom as if they were with him. I don't know what that statement implied for him to point that out to me. I then went to the back of the room and joined up with some law enforcement officials and Tom Adams and told them what had just happened. After the conference ended, various law enforcement officials had a private meeting and Carl Whiteside was present. They began asking questions to Whiteside about all the reports and newspaper articles in which he had indicated that the majority of these mutilations were due to predators. There was a tense atmosphere in the room with questions directed at Whiteside by those law enforcement officials who had been involved in mutilation investigations in their areas that Carl Whiteside just got up and quickly left the room. Overall, the conference had various speakers that shared their investigations or opinions, but some law enforcement officials didn't want to discuss their findings due to the UFO subject being discussed. UFO doesn't mean extraterrestrial, but Unidentified Flying Objects. I believe that one of the best presentations was done by Tom Adams on the unidentified helicopters sighted in areas of livestock mutilations.
BR: Also in 1979, Kenneth Rommel, Jr., a former FBI agent, headed a year-long study into the mutilations being reported in New Mexico. His investigation was funded with a $50,000 grant provided from the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration by the First Judicial District Attorney's Office of Santa Fe, New Mexico. I recall you met Rommel in Santa Fe at some point, and while you agreed with some of his points, you disagreed with others. You compared his involvement with the mutilation problem with how Dr. Condon treated the UFO subject.
TRB: Yes, over the time period of Kenneth Rommel's probe into the mutilation issue I had a number of personal correspondences with him and traveled out to Sante Fe to interview him. I didn't agree with everything he stated, especially that predation was the main explanation to this issue. I did agree with some of his statements about some cases which were due to predation, diseases or toxic chemicals that affected some livestock. It seemed to me that when he started his investigation the “classic” mutilations that involved a surgical type cut had stopped in New Mexico and he was left with those that were only due to predation. He included in his report a case which involved flakes found on a truck in Taos, NM that was being associated with an alleged UFO sighting. This report had been written by me discussing the analysis done on the “UFO flakes” in the The MUFON UFO Journal, August 1979 issue. Rommel stated in a letter to me that I didn't realize how close to the FBI analysis on the material I had come which indicated a paint on a wood substrate. In June of 2020, I was reading through one of Dr. Jacques Vallee's more recent books titled “Forbidden Science – Volume Three” on page 18 where Vallee states: “Absurd theories continue to clash around the animal mutilation topic. Ken Rommel, whom I suspect to be funded by Kit at the CIA, has told Science Digest that all the cases were explainable through predators: coyotes, vultures, mice or snakes.” When I saw this I immediately contacted Jacques and asked him “what made you initially suspect that Kit Green was funding Rommel? I know you wouldn't make a statement like you did in Forbidden Science – Volume Three unless you had a real reason to make that statement.” Jacques then said, “Very simple: Kit told me. I think he believed Rommel was doing a good job.” I noted additional information in Vallee's earlier book “Forbidden Science – Volume Two” where it states “8 October 1979 – In the meantime Kit has hired Rommel, a retired FBI agent charged with a formal study. H is spending his time and much CIA money in New Mexico. 22 November 1979 – Kit has come to the absurd conclusion that the mutilation reports are not simply misrepresentations of predator actions are the product of schizophrenia in witnesses...I have cured myself of the fascination I once felt for the Intelligence Community.” When I questioned Jacques about these statements he made in “Forbidden Science – Volume Two” he told me “Looking back in that quote, which I had forgotten, I may have been wrong about CIA money unless funneled through some cutout. The result is the same.” This information in Vallee's books made me question some things, and if it were true then our law enforcement community and our elected representatives have been lied to over the years about the true nature of the Rommel probe into the animal mutilations. Of course, there were those who suspected Rommel was not being completely transparent about the animal mutilation phenomenon, including Cpl. Lynn Lauber of the RCMP who I was in contact with in the past.
When I sent the New Mexico Press Release about Rommel's findings to Cpl. Lynn Lauber of the RCMP, he stated in the letter to me dated May 27, 1980: “Your information regarding the New Mexico Press Release is quite interesting. I find it difficult to understand how Rommel could make a statement such as this, without ever having personally witnessed a mutilation first-hand.”
BR: You had your fingers on the pulse of the mutilation phenomenon like few others. Perhaps like no one else. You had numerous law enforcement contacts across the US and up into Canada, and you were personally on the scene of many mutilation sites. You actually found evidence of human involvement in a good number of these cases.
TRB: In answer to your question about human involvement in a good number of cases, the answer is yes. There were cases where various tranquilizing drugs, specifically Ketamine, were found in these mutilated animals. Helicopter skid marks and hydraulic fluid was also found near some mutilations. I don't have any evidence to indicate a connection to the news reports that were coming about at the time, but large amounts of Ketamine were being stolen from various places here in the states. The RCMP was also finding Ketamine in some of their mutilated animals which if anyone is interested in this finding they can read Daniel Kagan & Ian Summer's book titled “Mute Evidence – The Cattle Mutilation Mystery Solved” published on June 1, 1984.
When I was in the process of moving from Texas to Tennessee, the majority of my research was stolen from me where I had placed nearly all of my research, family items, etc. in storage. I don't know if there was any connection to this theft of my research and family items and the investigations that I was conducting at the time. It was devastating at that time to know that someone had possession of confidential law enforcement material and other research items, plus photos and color slides. Other law enforcement investigators into this mutilation issue also had their mutilation files stolen even from their homes! One Sheriff in Benton County, Arkansas was even shot at while he was on a tractor plowing near his home while his house was ransacked, and mutilation files stolen. Another law enforcement official in Northern Alabama had one of his prize Angus bulls mutilated, so he decided to install a security system throughout his home.
BR: As I recall from a recent conversation with you, Gabe Valdez had found a cow with aluminum radar chaff in its mouth at a site in Dulce, New Mexico. As there was this chaff scattered across the pasture where its body had been found, it was assumed that it simply had eaten it. Apparently, there were mutilation sites in Colorado with the radar chaff too. Back around 1966 and a few years afterwards John Keel and other UFO researchers were finding these kinds of aluminum strips at sites of low-level UFO activity and landings. I myself gathered samples from ufologists in Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Arkansas.
TRB: Yes, it is true that radar chaff had been found in the mouth of a cow at a site in Dulce, New Mexico by New Mexico State Police officer Gabe Valdez. Gabe had this material analyzed and sent some of the material to me where I had it analyzed at a lab. The radar chaff matched some of the radar chaff that was found in Logan County, Colorado by Sheriff Tex Graves. I suspect that this radar chaff may have been used to interfere with any air breathing radar systems in the area in some type of military exercise.
BR: Eventually you came on the radar of Robert T. Bigelow, the well-known founder, president, and program manager of Bigelow Aerospace out of Las Vegas, Nevada. Also quite well known for his deep interest in UFOs and the former owner of Utah's Skinwalker Ranch. In 1997, you and a select 19 or so others were invited by Bigelow to come visit him in Las Vegas and share details on their findings. There were a lot of big names in attendance like Jacques Vallee, Gabe Valdez, Eric Davis, Edgar Mitchell, Hal Puthoff, and many others. A number of them you already knew. Was this gathering devoted to mutilations, or a variety of anomalous subject matter in general?
TRB: In 1997, I had been investigating livestock mutilations in South Florida and was assisting three different law enforcement agencies in this matter. Apparently, Gabe had inquired about these mutilations in Florida for NIDS [National Institute for Discovery Science], but the law enforcement agencies I was working with didn't know who Gabe or NIDS was and was not going to cooperate in ongoing investigations. I had a three-way conference call with the law enforcement officials and explained to them that I knew Officer Gabe Valdez and had worked with him in the past in New Mexico. I then called Gabe and told him that I had discussed with the Florida law enforcement officials who he was and his involvement in this matter.
A couple of days later, Gabe called me and told me that Mr. Bigelow wanted to talk with me. I questioned Gabe about what he was involved with at NIDS and who else was involved in this mutilation matter. Gabe assured me that everything was legit and that he had been helping Mr. Bigelow and some of his staff. Gabe then told me to be expecting a phone call from his Executive Secretary. The next day I received a phone call from Mr. Bigelow's secretary telling me that my airplane tickets and itinerary to Las Vegas were being sent. She further stated what all would be involved, and that once I arrived at the airport I would be met by someone who would pick me up and take me to Mr. Bigelow's motel and then later to his offices.
In answer to your question, yes, the SAB meeting was about animal mutilations.
BR: You mentioned to me at least one instance where law enforcement officers had staked out a location with cattle to see if someone would show up, and a helicopter did, spotlighting some cattle below, but as soon as an officer got on his radio to report what was happening, it seemed as though someone in the chopper was monitoring police traffic and immediately left.
TRB: Yes, this happened a few times where law enforcement would be staked out watching the cattle herds at night and witnessed a blue and white Jet Bell Ranger helicopter shining its spotlight down on the cattle. As soon as they picked up their mics and started communication, the helicopter veered away from the cattle. One time in Northern Alabama it veered away from the cattle and cut its lights out. Then as it approached the patrol car turned the spotlight on the patrol car.
BR: I gathered from an earlier talk that you came to believe or feel that in some cases that suggested human involvement in the mutilations that it appeared as though the perpetrators attempted to make the scene of the crime look like UFOs were to blame. Is that correct?
TRB: There were cases that were highly suggestive of creating or planting certain things near a mutilated cow. For instance, like creating burned circular areas near a cow in the Texas Panhandle suggesting something else landed there like a “flying saucer” or leaving a hypodermic needle or gas mask under or on the mutilated cow in Montana suggesting government involvement. Also placing cows where they would be found by the farmer or dropping a mutilated cow at the front gate of NORAD. Mutilating a bull in a barn then leaving wheel barrow tracks from the barn to the helicopter where helicopter skid marks were noted in the soil by the Sheriff's office. Tripod markings in the soil in New Mexico leading up to the mutilated animal suggesting something unearthly, but not found in other cases. This was all theatrics and to confuse law enforcement investigators.
BR: Do you think that the UFO phenomenon does overlap in some cases?
TRB: The question is do I think that the UFO phenomenon overlaps some mutilation cases? If we are to mean Unidentified Flying Objects seen in the immediate areas of mutilations, the answer is yes. There were some black triangular craft seen in the area of Northern Alabama when livestock mutilations were occurring in this area, but is there any evidence that they were responsible for these incidents? The answer is no. There are those within the UFO community that have indicated a direct connection with unusual craft and these animal mutilations, but I have not found any direct evidence (videos or photos of a cow being mutilated by beings from a disc-shaped craft). There are a number of stories along these lines, but there is no real factual evidence.
I have in my investigations run across some things that are not so easily explained, but I cannot say this is due to an extraterrestrial or interdimensional intelligence. There are more indications of human involvement in these animal mutilations than anything else.
BR: I recall you had puzzling cases like where tire tracks at a mutilation site just stopped at some point without any further evidence that it went anywhere else. As though perhaps it had been hoisted up into the air somehow?
TRB: I do not remember any tire tracks that just ended at a mutilation site. There were tire tracks on back roads near where the livestock was mutilated. Also, a plate tag ran on a vehicle seen in an area of a mutilation site at night indicated that the tag was not even issued from the County Courthouse! This implies that someone had made the metal tag. There were tripod markings that came up to a mutilation site in New Mexico that just ended.
BR: Peter Jordan was telling me how Gabe Valdez had a photograph of a mutilated cow that was pregnant and how the unborn calf had what resembled a human face! He said Valdez felt someone was secretly messing around with genetics/DNA. Did you ever happen to see this photo and talk with Gabe yourself on this matter?
TRB: Yes, I remember seeing the photo of the deformed calf, but it was not a human face. It gave the appearance of being a mutation. There are other deformed calves in different countries, some with large, human looking heads, others with weird faces and still others that have two heads. These are genetic anomalies that can be attributed to a number of factors.
BR: Peter wondered also what you thought about Oliphant and Colm Kelleher's theory that cattle mutilations might be linked to the emergence of Mad Cow disease. [Peter thought it odd that in his 2004 book mentioning this that he never mentioned that Oliphant had asked that same question in a number of articles back in 1993].
TRB: What did I think about Oliphant and Colm Kelleher's theory that mutilations might be linked to the emergence of Mad Cow Disease. It's possible, and whoever is performing these dissections of animals are obtaining these parts to be used for some purpose. What is interesting is that such surgical dissections are not just with domestic livestock, but wildlife too. Even dolphins have been mutilated near Pensacola, Florida in the past and the cuts on a few of the dolphins matched those on some classic cattle mutilations. Apparently, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) got involved in the investigations into these dolphin deaths according to the news. Not all the dolphins found had the classic type of mutilation. Some had what appeared to be bullet wounds and others with just large, slashing cuts.
After many years of investigating this mutilation phenomenon, it is evident that whoever or whatever is involved in its secrets can be kept. No one has been caught in the act of committing the crime, and no one has leaked any information about their involvement in it even if it was a cult or a covert government program involved in CBW or monitoring extraterrestrial/interdimensional intelligences. Early news programs (ABC News – 20/20 program) checking into this matter have been dropped with no explanation.
